Cold Steel ,I couldn't agree more .Asking for credentials is the number one obvious thing to ask ,but I find this approach more confrontentional and something I use when everything fails .My approach is based on the assumption that most Witnesses have that if there is a change in doctrine is not a problem since the Governing Body said it.Also I use my argument as a way to refute the famous loyalty question that frames someone as an apostate :" Do you belive that Jehovah guides the Governing Body?" .It is based on the idea of who is the final authority and having used it twice with "sleeping " Witnesses ,it seems to work .
raymond frantz
JoinedPosts by raymond frantz
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19
Maybe this is a way to get a Witness to use CRITICAL THINKING ?
by raymond frantz ini have been trying recently different ways to get fellow witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :.
"would you believe in the trinity if the governing body told you to ?
because it is not in the bible .
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19
Maybe this is a way to get a Witness to use CRITICAL THINKING ?
by raymond frantz ini have been trying recently different ways to get fellow witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :.
"would you believe in the trinity if the governing body told you to ?
because it is not in the bible .
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raymond frantz
I'm only trying to plant a seed ,I really feel for all these brothers and sisters being abused spiritually .I think we are at a point where time is on our side .THis is not another 1975, this time things are different .I've seen people stepping down or being disfellowshiped the last year more than I have ever since in my life as a Witness
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19
Maybe this is a way to get a Witness to use CRITICAL THINKING ?
by raymond frantz ini have been trying recently different ways to get fellow witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :.
"would you believe in the trinity if the governing body told you to ?
because it is not in the bible .
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raymond frantz
I have been trying recently different ways to get fellow Witnesses to use their thinking faculties ,one that seems to work is the following :
"Would you believe in the Trinity if the Governing Body told you to ? "
No!
"Why ? "
Because it is not in the Bible
"Who is the final authority then ,the Bible or the Governing Body?"
The Bible
"If the doctrine of Trinity is your drawing the line ,would you accept that, for others this line could be a different doctrine?"
THAT WAY OF APPROACH SEEMS TO WORK EVERYTIME ,what do you think?
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12
The Governing Body Myth
by DATA-DOG inwhatever your feelings about god or the bible, you may agree that thier manner of communication is very nice.
when the matter could not be resolved, paul and barnabas took the issue back to the congregation of the brothers who originated the problem - the jerusalem congregation.
we learn from this account, not that the jerusalem congregation served as a headquarters or governing body that handed down instruction and guidance for the other congregations.
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raymond frantz
The last thing I want is to follow some anonymous self appointed anointed . I don't want to replace one ideol (GB) with another (anointedjw) .We 're all going to heaven ,anointed and great crowd .We' re all equal and therefore unless they can back their words with miracles they're as good as any of us .
They way they write is somewhat apologetic .It is as if Antony Morris has realised the game is up and presents himself as the kind anointed comapred to the hardline anointed that he and his mates are
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60
If you believe God exists, what are your thoughts on what pleases him most?
by Fernando inour family has come to believe that god really wants each individual to personally and independently seek, find and walk with him - quite apart from what other humans say, think, believe or do.. we believe we were created as semi-autonomous beings.
when our inner compass is recalibrated, and we then self-direct, the outcomes seem best.. when we are instead led by humans, their hierarchies, organisations and ideas, the outcomes on the whole seem unfavourable.
legalism (rules), moralism (a moral code), ethnocentrism (doctrine), and gnosticism (knowledge) may seem meritorious.. yet these do not seem to lead to the deep inner transformation needed.
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raymond frantz
I grew up in a Witness family ,when I was a kid about 9-10 I told my dad that God is like a scientist ,trial and error, he made Adam and seeing he wasn't happy he gave him Eve .He said that was a blasphemy .I don't think so anymore . I see the Bible as a God's PR exercise towards mankind and evidence that he doesn't know us that well .The OT God is hateful ,loves killing and exact punishment ,this is a fact ,you can't escape it .The NW God is loving ,forgiving ,more understanting. In the new system to come we might get to see another face
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12
The Governing Body Myth
by DATA-DOG inwhatever your feelings about god or the bible, you may agree that thier manner of communication is very nice.
when the matter could not be resolved, paul and barnabas took the issue back to the congregation of the brothers who originated the problem - the jerusalem congregation.
we learn from this account, not that the jerusalem congregation served as a headquarters or governing body that handed down instruction and guidance for the other congregations.
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raymond frantz
"Brothers, even though a man takes some false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness, as you each keep an eye on yourself, for fear you also may be tempted. Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ." - Galatians 6:1-2
So how do I go about correcting them ? Do I write them a letter ? Or do I tell the local elders ? These men in Brooklyn have blood in their hands ,they go to sleep every night in full knowledge that they have destroyed thousand of families with their disfellowship practise .These snakes are not my brothers ,they are Satan's offspring as were the Pharishees of Jesus' days and they will be judged harsly from their Master shortly.
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Website offering help for children cases
by raymond frantz ini came across the following website http://jwchildcustody.com .it offers advice to parents fight a custody for children case with their jehovah's witness spouse .it is meant for your lawyer, i hope that will be a good help for many?
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raymond frantz
I came across the following website http://jwchildcustody.com .It offers advice to parents fight a custody for children case with their Jehovah's Witness spouse .It is meant for your lawyer, I hope that will be a good help for many?
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54
Matthew 27:52-53 WTF!?!?!?!
by Cagefighter indead people raided jerusalem during the cruxifiction?
how have i never heard this before?
why do i suspect the nwt completely leaves this event out?.
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raymond frantz
Another explanation is this one :
Around Jerusalem at the time, the method of burial was in the side of a hill or mountain. They usually did not bury the dead 6 foot under the dirt. These would be either naturally occurring caves or dug out especially for burials.
When the earthquake(s) happened--the main one with aftershocks, normally---this dislodged (literally) the sealed stones at the openings and the bodies inside. Gravity takes over and these bodies roll down the hill, into the streets of Jerusalem.
For those residents or anybody really, this caused the citizens to be very upset. But those bodies then did not get up and walk away. They remained dead.
Someone asked why you asked this of Jehovah's Witnesses? The answer is obvious. You wanted a correct answer based on research and knowledge. It is how we do things. Not by repeating what some clergyman has you recite. -
54
Matthew 27:52-53 WTF!?!?!?!
by Cagefighter indead people raided jerusalem during the cruxifiction?
how have i never heard this before?
why do i suspect the nwt completely leaves this event out?.
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raymond frantz
Epiphanius and other early Church Fathers taught that the holy ones literally came to life and went with the resurrected Jesus to heaven. Augustine, Theophylactus, and Zigabenus believed that these dead ones received a temporary resurrection but later returned to their tombs.
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54
Matthew 27:52-53 WTF!?!?!?!
by Cagefighter indead people raided jerusalem during the cruxifiction?
how have i never heard this before?
why do i suspect the nwt completely leaves this event out?.
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raymond frantz
κα?
and
τ?
the
μνημε?α
tombs
?νε?χθησαν
were opened,
κα?
and
πολλ?
many
σ?ματα
bodies
τ?ν
of the
κεκοιμημ?νων
fallen asleep
?γ?ων
saints
?γ?ρθησαν
arose,
κα?
and
?ξελθ?ντες
having gone forth
?κ
out of
τ?ν
the
μνημε?ων
tombs
μετ?
after
τ?ν
the
?γερσιν
resurrection
α?το?
of him,
ε?σ?λθον
they entered
ε?ς
into
τ?ν
the
?γ?αν
holy
π?λιν
city
κα?
and
?νεφαν?σθησαν
appeared
πολλο?ς
to many.